OF A RATIONAL ARMENIAN
It’s one thing to consider the
evidence of Armenian web sites, where the same hogwash is repeated over and over... the
validity of the Sevres Treaty, the incriminating pronouncements of the Allied-controlled
Turkish kangaroo courts, the forged Andonian documents and telegrams, the fake and/or
undocumented pictures, biased testimonies from missionaries and racist Turcophobes like
Ambassador Morgenthau, the repetition as fact of wartime propaganda perpetuated by the
likes of the British Blue Book, historians like Arnold Toynbee (in his early period), or
coverage in prestigious but prejudiced newspapers like The New York Times...
not to mention what unethically biased Armenian historians have to say, and the
unverifiable hearsay of Armenian oral history. None of these web sites address the damning
evidence against them, at the head of which is the outcome of the Malta Tribunal; none
utter a peep about the Armenians’ murderous ethnic cleansing of their non-Christian
countrymen, which ironically followed the lines of a real genocide. (Any occasional
violence on their helpless and innocent part is usually explained as “self-defense.”)
Perhaps Armenians feel they can afford to bypass the inconsistencies of their claims
simply because there is a wealth of support by those whose eyes the wool has been
successfully pulled over, along with the cumulative effect of their expertly constructed
Big Lie. Armenians have learned the value of repeating
their “misstatements”... anything goes, as long as the unwary can be persuaded to
offer their sympathy, and join the cause. (That is, “Con Job.”)
Aware as I am of the agenda of these Armenian web sites, I do peruse them now and then...
just curious to see whether there really is any evidence that can form doubt in my mind.
Naturally, I am angry at the systematic campaign Turk-hating groups have been involved in
for the longest time, aware as I am of the unfairness of these efforts... since the
Western audiences have been so conditioned to be friendly to their cause, and few of them
will bother to ask questions; everybody knows how barbaric the Turks were, and how
innocent and helpless were the Armenians they subjugated. Regardless, loyalty to my ethnic
tribe has limits; truth and honesty supersede all. So even though I am very much aware of
Armenian/Greek shenanigans, if I encounter actual evidence that runs contrary to my
beliefs (and my beliefs include the knowledge the Turks were not always angels), I would
definitely deal with it, and maintain an open mind. This is why in this web site, you will
not just find a wealth of impartial sources that turn the Armenian claims on their
collective ear; you will also find my having provided the best of what the Armenians have
to dish out. If you poke around this extensive site enough, you’ll find I am not hiding
This is why I’m especially interested in the kind of “proof” individual Armenians
who are decent human beings have to offer. Once in a while, some of these Armenians can be
found out there, trying to make sense of what is being told, not out to deliberately
spread lies, and not necessarily part of the “genocide.com” monolith. These can occasionally be found in the
guestbooks or forums of web sites that deal with the subject matter.
Now, the bulk of Armenians are beyond hope. Their hatred is too inbred in them, and nothing is going to make them
change their minds... the “Genocide” is too monumental a reason for their being
Armenian. Here are some typical entries found in the first few pages of the “armenianreality.com”
im going to have a trip to
turkey and pimp all those turkish @#%$! im even going to @#%$! every single @#%$! and
leave them a kid made by an armenian guy dont worry girls its not a choicr im even going
to rape little turkish @#%$! — play boy, 3-26-01
...French government just recognized the ARMENIAN GENOCIDE...CANADA is next cocksuckers.
Oh yeah btw what were you talking there about a jewsih holocauts ??? huh ??? that's a load
of @#%$! ...i bet jews massacred poor German SS soldiers without mercy and then put the
blame on them. @#%$! you all. ARMENIAN POWER. — Jean Guy; Homepage Title:
You sick mother @#%$! turks.
I wish all of this that you wrote here was true. I wish we really massacared you all so
that your entire @#%$! nation wouldn't exist any more. — 3-29-01
Does this mean Turks can’t be racist in their
entries? Sure they can... but it usually does not stem from their hating Armenians. They
hate the mentality of this typical Armenian, and when they are exposed to this sort of
irrational, unfair, sometimes psychotic attitude it’s not difficult to lose one’s
temper. Not every Turk can hold to the high road... because contrary to what most
Armenians and other Turcophobes have allowed themselves to believe (and would like you to
believe), Turks are human, too! Once again.... Armenians and Greeks act... and Turks react.
However, there was an Armenian in the pages of this guestbook who was a “good guy.” A
reasonable human being who is not choked in the juices of hatred. He is convinced in the
justness of his cause, not because he believes Turks are the anti-Christ, but because he has
been told a version of history all his life that he has no reason to question. All the
sources he has come across (or chose to have come across) overwhelmingly have reinforced
the truth of his convictions.
“Chose to have come across” is an essential point; the tragedy is, Aram... who even
tells the “mad-dog” Armenians to watch themselves as far as their foul language &
sentiments in the guestbook, shedding light on his fairness and humanity... becomes
frustrated by the last of his posts that I've read (I only read around a tenth of the
guestbook, but it sounds like he was getting near the end of his contributions), and
starts cursing out the web site. The entire web site, to his mind, is a pack of lies! He
makes no reference to any of the points of the web site, preferring to dismiss the entire
endeavor as being mired in dishonesty — EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE AMPLE SAMPLES OF SOURCES
AND MANY “HARD FACTS” OF NON-TURKISH ORIGIN. I doubt he could stand reading more than
a couple of the site’s pages. It would be like the Reverend Jerry Falwell reading the Koran, or Osama Bin Laden reading the Bible...
with an open mind.
So deeply ingrained is his belief system, that even this intelligent and reasonable human
of Armenian origin (Aram’s an “ian” of another kind: Canadian) cannot bear to weigh
the testimony of the opposing viewpoint. Instead, he dwells on all that he has been told,
and refers to it as the Gospel truth. If sheer dogma is the way of such a fair and “enlightened”
Armenian, is it any wonder the average Armenian lends himself to dreams of tearing Turks
limb from limb?
Let us examine the snippets of what he presents, to prove the case of the Armenian “Genocide.”
(Please bear in mind I'm only offering excerpts... since there is a lot; I have chosen the
meatier selections, for the most part. If you're interested in what Aram has to say, visit
the armenianreality.com guestbook, and direct yourself to Message #1 on.)
"Armenians... were quickly demonized and blamed for
Turkey's misfortunes. They were eventually perceived as Turkey's main enemy"
Comments: Hello. I must admit, I'm not very
surprised that you have devoted a website at what you consider to be the truth, but
must offer my dissent. I don't feel like getting into a fruitless argument about the
difference between your reality and mine, but I would urge you to study your history
a bit more than you have before jumping the gun. Nevertheless, I am not here to give
you a lecture, just to offer some knowledge, and perhaps establish some form of
I wrote the following letter to someone who had written to the Turkish Daily News
Online, and believe it may offer some historical insights, or at least what I and
many, many genocide scholars believe Mr. Hatch believed the Turkish Government
should do something to counter the great marketing strategy of the Armenian Lobby. I
will include his letter to the editor at the end as well.
Holdwater says: What a
good guy! Aram, you are a refreshing Armenian.
Nevertheless, there were some events
in the late nineteenth and beginning of this century that culminated in Armenians
being slated for destruction, which I would like to summarize for you. Having
benefitted greatly from advances in the Ottoman empire in pre-19th century,
Armenians flourished culturally and intellectually. All of this came to an end with
economic hardships and the rise of extreme nationalism in Turkey, beginning with the
reign of Sultan Abdul Hamid in 1876. Armenians, who were quite affluent and doing
comparatively well in the Empire, were quickly demonized and blamed for Turkey's
misfortunes. They were eventually perceived as Turkey's main enemy, an excuse for
the ills suffered by the Ottoman Empire. Hamid initiated massacres of these
"infidels," the Armenian minority, in 1894-1896, resulting in the deaths
of hundreds of thousands. Armenians were living a precarious existance, often being
subjected to killings and massacres.
I like the fact that
Aram concedes Armenians flourished in the Ottoman Empire... many Armenians can't
bring themselves to admit even that, preferring to paint a picture that they were
mostly oppressed under the brutal hand of the Turks.
nationalism did not begin in earnest for ordinary Turks until the 20th Century...
culminating finally when they realized all was going to be taken away from them,
with the War of Independence. Let's see now.... Aram believes the Turks got so
frustrated with the crumbling of their once-great empire, they decided to vent their
fury with the poor, helpless Armenians.
Does that make sense?
Here are the Armenians, known as the loyal citizens for centuries... both Armenians
and Turks recognized few differences between each other, loving each other as their
fellow citizens for the most part.... and suddenly, in a jealous hissy fit, the
Turks decided to take up their frustrations with the poor Armenians.
The fact of the matter
is, Armenian leaders were getting encouraged by the enemies of the Ottoman Empire...
Czarist Russia and the British Empire... and they were also emboldened by how other
peoples within the empire were gaining their independence, like the Greeks and the
Serbs. Do the words "Hunchak" and "Dashnak" ring a
bell, anyone? Here, let's have some
Armenian historians serve as reminders. These revolutionaries' intention was to
terrorize the government and the people (often other Armenians), and stir up the
pot. Reports of massacres were greatly exaggerated ("hundreds of
thousands" of massacred Armenians during 1894-1896?? Sez who? That is, sez which
who who is impartial?), as "these revolts and riots were presented by the
Armenian revolutionary societies in Europe and America as the killing of Armenians
by Turks, stirring up considerable emotion among Christian peoples."
"The aim of the
Armenian revolutionaries is to stir disturbances, to get the Ottomans to react to
violence, and thus get the foreign powers to intervene."
So wrote Sir Philip
Currie, the British Ambassador in Istanbul, 28 March 1894 (British Blue Book,
Nr.6 1894, p.57). Similar conclusions can be found by British from the period in the
Quotes page. The rarity of a relatively
unbiased missionary (at least for the writing of this report... this missionary was
still very biased), Dr. Cyrus Hamlin, sheds similar light in an 1893 American magazine article.
Just as in the 1915
period of the "Genocide," Armenians make sure to apply the representation
of Armenians as poor, innocent bystanders in the mid-to-late 19th Century. Were
there massacres? No doubt there were episodes of control being lost and people going
nuts... but Armenian leaders who were arrested don't qualify; they were being
punished for treachery (don't forget who Fired the First Shot), par for the course for any nation. (Who
else would have had the power to lead the Armenians, but their established elite who
had money behind them? Of course, some of these wealthy were forced into compliance, as a major
target of Armenian terrorists were Armenians, themselves. Some of these wealthy
Armenians were unfortunately caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place. However, let's keep in mind not
all those arrested were executed... and if anyone claims that, ask them for bonafide
proof.) (HAH! "Bonafide proof"... dream on, if you think you can
get such a thing from the Armenians.)
I subsequently got into the area
of the massacres duing the 1880s when I addressed points put forward by Dr. Papazian.
Aram might well have taken his information from the good Armenian professor, as Dr.
Papazian also uses the "exact" "hundreds of thousands" figure.
adult males were killed on the spot"
A plan was hatched to forcibly deport all Armenians from the
Eastern part of Turkey. All the Armenians in the Turkish military were stripped of their
arms and slaughtered in February 1915.
That's funny. I keep hearing tell of Armenian
soldiers being assigned to do manual labor (and being "worked as animals") by
Armenian historians. That would have been much wiser for the evil Turks, to get some slave
labor, instead of slaughtering ALL of the soldiers.
I wonder how many of these soldiers were left,
anyway. Almost all of them deserted, to fight the Ottoman forces from the back... while
the Turks were desperately trying to hold off the Russians from the front. Even the
anti-Turkish New York Times reported "TURKISH ARMENIANS IN ARMED REVOLT...
We’re Ready to Join Russian Invaders." Says here the Armenians refused to even join
the army of their nation, and "Armenian students have shown themselves ready to join
the invading army, explaining that they had prepared themselves for the Russian approach
by constant drilling and by gathering arms secretly." (Hmmmm.... poor, innocent
Armenians.) "Armenian peasants are receiving the Russian troops with enthusiasm and
giving provisions to them freely."
"In Feltun the number of insurgents is said to
exceed 20,000 and they are reported to have defeated all the Turkish troops sent against
them, causing heavy losses to the Turks." Yep, these Armenian soldiers had to come
from SOMEWHERE (and not all of them from Russia).... just like Boghos Nubar Pasha claimed in his letter to The Times of London... there
were 200,000 Armenians, taking up arms against the Turks. Could it be that not ALL of them
would have been "slaughtered"?
Not incidentally, the date of this article is
November 7, 1914... before the relocation order that would take place of necessity the
following year. Yet, Armenian historians
like Richard Hovannisian insist (with a straight face) any violence perpetrated by the
Armenians took place in self defense, responding to the forced relocation.
For further details, visit the Ottoman-Armenian Troops page. You'll get a better
idea of what happened to some 50,000 of these men... once they sided with the invading
Russian enemy, you can bet they were doing more massacring than getting massacred.
On April 24th of the same year, hundreds of Armenian Intellectuals
were rounded up and mostly killed or imprisoned.
Were they killed or imprisoned because they were
poor, innocent intellectuals, or maybe..... hmmmm.... could they have been leading the
betrayal of their nation?
The forced deportations of all Armenians ensued. All adult males
were killed on the spot.
adult males were killed on the spot, three years earlier.
Wow. ALL adult males were shot on the spot. Amazing.
Here is a photo I came across in an
Armenian web site, identified as: "Group of Armenian Genocide survivors with
priest in courtyard of the Armenian Cathedral, Aleppo, late 1918. Photo courtesy of
Rev. Arten Ashjian, Yonkers, NY, and Project Save." How in the world did all of
these well fed men wind up there, for heaven's sake? Didn't they have the sense to stay
dead after they were "shot on the spot"?
Aside from what Armenians tell us, is
there impartial evidence of any Armenian men being "shot on the spot" by
Turkish soldiers, as a result of government policy? If there is, I sure haven't come
across it... and I've been living and breathing in Armenian "genocide" sites for
the past few months. You'd think there would have been some conscientious Turks who would
have written memoirs of the horrors they were subjected to committing; some SS men who
were brainwashed into anti-Semitism were wracked with guilt after helping to implement the
"Final Solution." At least some simple peasant good-hearted Turks (who were not
taught racism at schools via the Nazis, and who were drafted into the army... let us
assume they were subsequently forced into becoming government-sponsored murderers)
wouldn't have been able to 'hold it in," once the smoke cleared. Armenians are not
known to break off from the one-willed monolith their people amazingly are, but even an
Armenian wrote his killing memoirs when
the Armenians were bent on implementing their version of the Final Solution against
cannot utilize independent
and objective thought;
they only know how to
follow their leaders...
sometimes off cliffs.
In 1919, there was a military tribunal
in Turkey, which tried and sentenced to death in abstentia the main perpetrators: Talaat,
Enver, and Jemal. Yep, that kangaroo court by the puppet
government cringing under Allied occupation sure carried the full letter of the law. Newspapers around the world reported on the events in
Turkey. Thank God! We all know how impartial the newspapers could be. Archives in the U.S., for example, store much information of
communiques, photographs, letters, newspaper articles, and other evidence. They must have been withholding all that evidence when the
desperate British searched as far as
America's shores to keep the Ottoman officials in the hoosegow, during the Malta War
Crimes Tribunal... the "Nuremberg" of the Armenian Falsified Genocide. The U.S. Ambassador to Turkey at the time, Henry Morgenthau,
has written extensively on his dealings with the ruling elite, as have the historians
Viscount Bryce and Arnold Toynbee. I feel
much better now, being able to rely on the testimony of these fellows who were totally
interested in the truth. See Morgenthau and British Propaganda. Yet, the Ottoman Archives (after 1895) in Turkey remains
closed for scrutiny. Izzat so? That plain ain't true.
Most people in Turkey really do believe
there was no genocide: they believe that there was a civil war in which people from both
sides died, that Armenians were traitors siding with the Russians, and needed to be
Uhhh... could that be, because, you
know.... that's just the way it WAS? I mean, they're only supported by... like, you
know.... objective FACTS?
Here's the letter by Richard Hatch Aram
was responding to, a man with greater tune to reality... having had the open mind to
explore the other side:
I would like to say that I agree with Mr Aktan's editorial concerning recognition by world
governments of what is called the Armenian Genocide. The basic problem is that those who
represent the belief in the genocide have a much better marketing strategy that those
representing Turkish interests. As an American who has spent time in Turkey I can say that
the average American citizen is ignorant of what Turkey is like.
The time I spent in Turkey was an education. I found a beautiful country with a rich
history populated by some of the friendliest people I have ever met. I fell in love with
Turkey. However, in the American news media this side of Turkey is rarely presented.
Instead the only time you really hear about Turkey is in conjunction with the genocide.
This is why it is accepted by so many in America.
The Turkish government needs to present their case as well as the genocide believers do in
my country. My fellow Americans believe what they do about Turkey not because of malice
but because of hearing only one side of the argument.
Richard A. Hatch
Aram's take on why
Turks are disliked
Yeah, I know Turks have a horrible name on the
International scene. Do you want to guess a couple of reasons why the "Terrible
Turks" got such a reputation? I know generalisations about you and your
countrymen and women must be disturbing. Do you realise that doing things like
denying a genocide do not really help your image? When an entire government is hell
bent on changing history, when it denies the truth for its own purposes, when the
memory of those it sentenced to death as a result of their nationality is forgotten
or, worse, sites like this @#%$! come out trying to prove the exact opposite of what
happened, well, you can expect many people to hate you, and many others to follow
their example. What book are you reading? My guess is that it is a book in Turkish.
Tell you what: why don't you read a book in another language, that you would not
find in Turkey? Why don't you read a book about the genocide written by a genocide
scholar who is neither Turkish nor Armenian, is living neither in Turkey nor
Armenia, see what sources they consult and make sure they are unbiased?
Sigh. I'm afraid the
reasons run far deeper than the ethnocentric view Aram expresses.... there is a lot
more to why Turks have a bad reputation, and it has little to do with denying the
"genocide." The reasons go far back, beginning with the Crusades, and
Professor Justin McCarthy
summarized, in a 2001 lecture on
British propaganda: "The reasons for the ill feeling against Turks that
is often seen in Western countries... go back to the Middle Ages. They go back to
the period in which the name Muhammad was virtually synonymous with the Devil in
Western culture. Europeans and Americans had a long memory of conflict between
Christianity and Islam, and Turks were the political leaders of Islam."
Looks like Aram is about to
lose his cool, at this point.
I wonder what genocide scholar
Aram advocates, who is neither Turkish or Armenian. Certainly, quite a few exist
(such as good old Christopher
Walker, and these "Armenians"
in non-Armenian clothing), but the brunt of Armenian genocide scholars are
Armenian. I think Aram is being disingenuous here... most of what he has relied on
was most likely written by Armenians; Armenians who follow the "Armenian AND? Anthem," which would
roughly be 99.99% of them.
I have never read a book on
this subject in Turkish, because I have never come across such a book in America...
(there is one bound book of "Illustrated History Magazine" from 1950-51
Turkey I subsequently discovered from my father's collection, and have cited in
these pages... but there was nothing in there about the Armenian
"Genocide.") besides, my Turkish wouldn't be up to the task.
Unfortunately, for those like Aram, anyone who writes a "genocide" book
that goes against their views would be unacceptable; even if the writer is not
For example, in 2002, Christian
scholar and Judge Sam Weems came up with the excellently researched "Armenia:
Secrets of a 'Christian' Terrorist State"; Weems was a Scottish American
whose first relative came to America in 1686. He said, "I don't have a drop of
Turkish, Armenian, or Azerbaijan blood in my body. I am just an American taxpayer
who, based on Armenian evidence, concludes that Armenia has created a genocide
industry for the sole reason of fleecing and deceiving the Christian world."
And what happened? Armenian organizations went on their typical character assassinating
attack (calling Mr. Weems a "convicted felon,"
among other things), and lied about reading the book [concluding the book was
untruthful] even before the book came out. In other words, Armenians dismissed the
book... based primarily on the writings of their own beloved Professor Hovannisian...
without even reading the book, pretending that they had read it!
Aram is also dead wrong in
assuming books written in Turkish would be against his point of view. A trip to
Prof. Levon Marashlian's page on his university's web site (as of April, 2003)
reveals his genocide book written in Turkish, for sale in Turkey. Turkish Turncoat
Taner Akcam has a genocide book in Turkish. I'm sure there are quite a number more. Turkish
Turncoat Halil Berktay, who (like his buddy Mr. Akcam) is Armenian for all practical
purposes... teaches the Armenian viewpoint in an Istanbul university.
There were plenty of good
resources in that " @#%$!" armenianreality.com site from impartial,
non-Turkish, Western sources... but Aram couldn't bear giving them a serious look.
sincerely hope that my time isn't wasted here"
By the time of the last entry I
read of Aram's, where he was running out of patience at his failure to get everyone
to agree with his clearly "obvious" viewpoint, he began singing a
different tune regarding the peaceful co-existence between Armenians and Turks:
Turks and Armenians did not live in peaceful
co-existance for 900 years, I'm afraid. Armenians were under the yoke of the Ottoman
empire, and that for about 600 years. Yes, they were not persecuted all the time,
but this doesn't mean they lived in peace. Some Armenians even flourished in Ottoman
times, especially the 19th century, associated with the Armenian Renaissance period.
So I agree, they were not always enemies. But clearly, Armenians were seen as
Infidels, second-class citizens in a society which tolerated them rather than giving
them equal rights.
Turkish writer "Uz"
had this to say:
you say nonturks were second class
citizens in ottoman.if this is true
then i think it was a REVOLUTION!dont
you know that in that ages in europe
non christians were not even seen as
Once again, the double standard
is applied. Who cares what happens when the shoe is on the other foot? Turkish lives
just are not as important.
Aram winds up with (as far as I
I sincerely hope that my time isn't wasted
here, that I could bring at least some of you to question what you have learned all
your lives. I realise that you have never learned about the Armenian Genocide, but
the Turkish government is trying to hide this fact from you: you cannot even discuss
it freely in your country! (Puh-leeze...) I hope that
you can use resources like the Internet to find out more about the truth. I also
hope Armenians can be more tolerant towards the lack of information which results in
many Turks denying the Genocide — this is normal when you are told it never
happened — and not write things such as raping sisters and other @#%$! I have seen
on thes guestbook. Your hatred will lead to your demise, and ruin your credibility.
You will sound like the creators of this site.
You tell 'em, Aram! At least he
recognized the lack of civility on the part of his fellow Armenians will wind up
doing more harm than good to the impartial observer. I only wish Aram would open up
his own mind and follow his own advice: "...Use resources like the Internet to
find out more about the truth." That is the name of the game.... the TRUTH. The
only things are, you have to be careful where you're getting the truth from... and
you have to have an open enough mind to consider different views.